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1H:1S, 1N revisited Kaplan Inversion or something else?

#1 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 08:17

I've been thinking about this sequence in a 2/1 context. 1:1, 1N as 12-14 balanced seems a bit wasteful for the cheapest bid available, particularly as many of these hands won't object to raising 1 instead. Some alternatives...

1) Allow 1NT to be off-shape, typically with 1-2 spades. This has some inferences for your 2m rebids - they will either have honours concentrated in the suits bid, 5-5 shape or extra values.

2) Kaplan Inversion (1 = forcing NT without 5, 1NT = 5). I certainly think this is better than using a forcing 1NT response as rebidding a 2 card club suit isn't my cup of tea.

3) Have 1:1, 1NT show any 15+ or similar, like Gazzilli but without the ambiguity. 2 can be 3 cards, but 35(32) normally raises.

Edit - I missed option 4, which was to be transfer rebids after 1:1.

Option 2 allows you to play a "forcing NT" without rebidding a 2 card suit, but I've never really felt the need for a flat 13 count to keep bidding opposite a 1NT response. The problem hands that it solves are those with 45 - otherwise you need to choose the lesser evil of passing, bidding a 3 card minor, raising to 2NT or possibly the occasional 2 rebid.

I quite like option 3, as otherwise 1:1, 2X has all the normal range problems of bidding two suits, as does 1:1NT, 2X playing KI, whereas 1:1NT, 2X leaves responder's 2 rebid free as a raise. You also have a lot more room than over a 15+ 1NT rebid than a Gazzilli 2.

Any thoughts?
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#2 User is offline   awm 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 09:02

It's certainly a good idea to do something here, since 1-1 is actually one of the more awkward standard auctions. Elianna and I play the first style, which has a number of advantages:

(1) You can actually play 1NT, and in fact more frequently so than people who only rebid 1NT on 2533 shape.

(2) We like raising on 3-card support anyway, to making the 1NT rebid 1-2 spades is no big loss.

(3) After 1-1-1NT there are lots of good methods available (2-way checkback etc). The auction 1-1-2m is somewhat more awkward.

Now I understand that 2/1 players really hate playing 1NT contracts, so perhaps this is not for them. But we've won a lot of boards (esp. at MPs and BAM) in this way.

Sam and I play something very different, in part because we play precision-style methods. After 1-1:

1NT = 3+
2 = 4+
2 = good raise to 2
Else = natural

The advantage here is that the fourth suit is always available cheaply at the two level. This avoids the problem of 1-1-2 when responder has a strong hand and wants to investigate intelligently for slam. We've also found having two raises of partner to be a big win, allowing us to solve "bridge world death hands" with 3-card support, as well as being able to stop at the 2-level more frequently.
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a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#3 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 09:10

Oh yeah, I knew there was an option I missed - transfer rebids after 1:1 (whether playing natural or KI).

Using 1NT to show diamonds instead of regular transfers makes a lot of sense to me. Think I'd prefer to somehow fit in two ways of making a 2 rebid though, even if it was at the expense of having two ways to raise - this would also solve the BWDH.
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#4 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 09:16

Another option is not to open the 5 card major on 5332 hands, but to open 1m instead!

A bit radical, but the advantages are that you no longer need the 1NT rebid as natural and (if you play Kaplan inversion) you always have a shape showing rebid over 1 1. The downside is you miss the occasional 5-3 fit (but by no means all of them, and it's not necessarily bad when you do).

I suppose it's similar logic to opening 1NT with a 5 card major. Dividing your hands between balanced and non-balanced is very often useful information for partner.
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#5 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 09:50

I considered that Eric, and I'm currently looking through one of Glen's ETM systems that does just that. I'm not too sure though - IIRC a 5332 with 11-13 makes up more than 10% of potential 1M openings, not sure I really want to lose that much frequency from what is a fairly well defined bid. It's a bit different from opening 1NT with a 5 card major, because that is much better defined than a 1m opening.
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#6 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 10:12

I prefer kaplan inversion...
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#7 User is offline   david_c 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 11:02

I don't much like the idea of opening a minor on 5H332 hands. In general I would be very sceptical about changing the definition of your opening bids just in order to make your rebid easier in one particular sequence. The frequency is hardly ever high enough.
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#8 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 13:23

david_c, on Apr 1 2006, 05:02 PM, said:

I don't much like the idea of opening a minor on 5H332 hands. In general I would be very sceptical about changing the definition of your opening bids just in order to make your rebid easier in one particular sequence. The frequency is hardly ever high enough.

Well the reasons are to better define all your 1M openings as either 6+ or 5+ with an outside suit, and to guarantee that you can show the balanced nature of an opening hand without going above 1NT.

The fact that it makes rebids easier on a couple of sequences is a pleasant side effect.
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#9 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2006-April-01, 14:11

It certainly does have its advantages - when I've got a balanced hand opposite, I'd be much happier preempting to the level of total trumps if I know opener can't be 5332.
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#10 User is offline   joshs 

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Posted 2006-April-03, 10:43

I have lots of thoughts.

I tend to like Kap Inv (especially in a 2/1 context) since it solves the flannary hand problem and makes the 4 vs 5 spades issues almost non-existant and thus you don't have to worry about playing 2S on xxxx opposite Qxx.

There are 2 style of continuations:
Original:
1N = Flannary
2 level 3+ cards

X-fers:
1N=Clubs
2C=D
2D=6+H
2H=Flannary

Both styles have advantages and disadvantages (Method 1 works best for the flannary shape, since its a cheap rebid, method 2 works best for the othershapes)

I usually play x-fers with 1N being clubs OR balanced, so 2c actually shows 4d and the suspect hand rebids 1N which responder can pass when he fears a misfit.

The awkward hand playing kap INV is 4153 shape or similar. Playing x-fer rebids you can pass a 1N rebid. In the other style you have a problem.

I do agree that rebidding 1N only on 2533 makes the bid a bit rare. The are certain advantages to showing a blanaced hand as soon as possible in an (potentially strong) auction, but here it may be too rare to make it worth it.
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#11 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2006-April-03, 10:54

joshs, on Apr 3 2006, 11:43 AM, said:

I have lots of thoughts.

I tend to like Kap Inv (especially in a 2/1 context) since it solves the flannary hand problem and makes the 4 vs 5 spades issues almost non-existant and thus you don't have to worry about playing 2S on xxxx opposite Qxx.

There are 2 style of continuations:
Original:
1N = Flannary
2 level 3+ cards

X-fers:
1N=Clubs
2C=D
2D=6+H
2H=Flannary

Both styles have advantages and disadvantages (Method 1 works best for the flannary shape, since its a cheap rebid, method 2 works best for the othershapes)

I usually play x-fers with 1N being clubs OR balanced, so 2c actually shows 4d and the suspect hand rebids 1N which responder can pass when he fears a misfit.

The awkward hand playing kap INV is 4153 shape or similar. Playing x-fer rebids you can pass a 1N rebid. In the other style you have a problem.

I do agree that rebidding 1N only on 2533 makes the bid a bit rare. The are certain advantages to showing a blanaced hand as soon as possible in an (potentially strong) auction, but here it may be too rare to make it worth it.

There are more than two styles of continuations. In fact you missed the most common style (not claiming I prefer it or not), natural continuations. That doesn't take care of the Flannery problem, but it means all your minor suit rebids become natural which is nice, and it lets you play in 1NT when opener is balanced and responder has four spades, solving your awkward 4153 or so hand.

There are even more styles than that. Gavin and Vince play or used to play (I believe) transfers but with the first two bids reversed, so 1NT is diamonds and 2C is natural. I'm not sure what the reasoning is to be honest, but I know it's extremely well thought out and that they have good reasons.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#12 User is offline   joshs 

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Posted 2006-April-03, 10:55

BTW, here is the josh adjunct to kap INV:

1H-1S-1N(C or balanced)-2C(weak scramble)-2D(3532)-Now responder can place the contract.

This handles: responder having:
4144 or 3145 Pass 2D
3235 or 4225 Bid 2H
3136 and very weak bid 3C (ok I would rather be in 2C but whatever)
4135 bid 2S

And Anti-Bart:
1H-1S-1N:
2D forces 2H, weak preference or a variety of good hands
2H direct 8-10, 2 card support

BTW, Sam and Adam's method also sounds very interesting...
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#13 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2006-April-03, 10:58

MickyB, on Apr 1 2006, 02:17 PM, said:

3) Have 1:1, 1NT show any 15+ or similar, like Gazzilli but without the ambiguity. 2 can be 3 cards, but 35(32) normally raises.

This option (Kaplan inversion and 1NT rebid = "Gazzilli") is used in Buratti-Lanzarotti's "Nightmare" system
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#14 User is offline   joshs 

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Posted 2006-April-03, 11:15

jdonn, on Apr 3 2006, 11:54 AM, said:

joshs, on Apr 3 2006, 11:43 AM, said:

I have lots of thoughts.

I tend to like Kap Inv (especially in a 2/1 context) since it solves the flannary hand problem and makes the 4 vs 5 spades issues almost non-existant and thus you don't have to worry about playing 2S on xxxx opposite Qxx.

There are 2 style of continuations:
Original:
1N = Flannary
2 level 3+ cards

X-fers:
1N=Clubs
2C=D
2D=6+H
2H=Flannary

Both styles have advantages and disadvantages (Method 1 works best for the flannary shape, since its a cheap rebid, method 2 works best for the othershapes)

I usually play x-fers with 1N being clubs OR balanced, so 2c actually shows 4d and the suspect hand rebids 1N which responder can pass when he fears a misfit.

The awkward hand playing kap INV is 4153 shape or similar. Playing x-fer rebids you can pass a 1N rebid. In the other style you have a problem.

I do agree that rebidding 1N only on 2533 makes the bid a bit rare. The are certain advantages to showing a blanaced hand as soon as possible in  an (potentially strong) auction, but here it may be too rare to make it worth it.

There are more than two styles of continuations. In fact you missed the most common style (not claiming I prefer it or not), natural continuations. That doesn't take care of the Flannery problem, but it means all your minor suit rebids become natural which is nice, and it lets you play in 1NT when opener is balanced and responder has four spades, solving your awkward 4153 or so hand.

There are even more styles than that. Gavin and Vince play or used to play (I believe) transfers but with the first two bids reversed, so 1NT is diamonds and 2C is natural. I'm not sure what the reasoning is to be honest, but I know it's extremely well thought out and that they have good reasons.

OK fair enough, but the orginal convention was designed to handle the flannary hand, so the 1H-1S-natural method I thus dub the Miles interchange....

I do think the inversion between 1N and 2C is very interesting.
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#15 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2006-April-04, 19:27

This subject and the related subject of how to handle 1-1NT forcing (in particular how to combine Bart and Gazzilli – one attempt is in ETM Gold Premium) holds great interest for me – however a recent rec.games.bridge posting asking about Bart/Gazzilli had zero replies so most do not find it so absorbing, so I’ll understand that most will skip the rest of this or skim unread it.

To avoid repetition below, all sequences that begin 1-1 are using the Kaplanville Inversion, where 1 acts like a proxy “forcing notrump”. In this style, 1-1NT shows 5+s.

Most of the design work in this area involves mapping hand types to opener’s rebid, and deciding what works or not. For example I considered 1-1--2 to show either 4s or 6s (opener's 2 rebid shows s - thus a remapping). Now responder can signoff in 2 or can bid 2 to ask. However some hands want to invite opposite 6s but pass opposite 5 (i.e. if 4s), so the scheme has flaws.

As noted in a posting above, Vincent Demuy and Gavin Wolpert play (or played?) a method where 1-1--1NT shows a balanced hand or s. This allows them to play 1-1—2 to show 4s (sort of a delayed Flannery). The problem with this mapping is that the range of 1NT is considerable, forcing responder to move on when a pass would be better. Also the distributional s & s hands might place a notrump contract by the wrong side.

Currently I favour this approach:

After 1-1:

1NT: Maximum of 14. Balanced or with exactly a four card minor (not 0-5-4-4). Now 2m is to play, 2 is an artificial game force, 2 and invite with 2s and (or poor invite with 3s), 3X natural invite.

2: Four or longer minor and 14/15+, or five or longer minor, or any 18/19+. Structure below.

2: 4+s, up to 16 (not 5s if 14-16).

2: 4+s, 16/17-18 if 4s, 14-16 if 5+s.

3/: 5-5+, 13/14-16.

Rest fairly standard.

After 1-1--2:

2: Up to 9, 4-5s or 3s and short s. Now:
**** Pass: 4+s, no game interest.
**** 2: 4s and 15-18 or 5+s up to 13. 3 to play. 2 asks, 2NT shows 15-16, 3 5-5+, above 3 if 17-18
**** 2: 4+s and game interest, forcing just to 2NT.
**** 2NT: 18/19+ Puppet to 3 or signoff with 6+s. After responder bids 3, 3 shows 4s, 3 and 3 show 4s (the latter with 3/4s), 3NT is flat with 6s.
**** 3: 18/19+ with 4+s. 3 asks hand type.
**** 3: 17/18+ with 5+s.
**** 3 and higher: Hands with 6+s and a singleton/void.

2: Up to 9, 2s & 4-5s. Now:
**** Pass: 4+s, no game interest.
**** 2: 4+s and game interest, forcing just to 2NT.
**** 2NT: 18/19+ Puppet to 3 or signoff. As 2NT puppet above.
**** 3: 17/18+ with 4+s. 3 asks hand type.
**** 3: 18/19+ with 5+s.
**** 3 and higher: Hands with 6+s and a singleton/void.

2: Most hands with 9/10+ (see 2NT alternative). Now:
**** 2NT transfer to 3 with s – opener can pass 3 if 5-5 but will bid again if 14/15+ to show shape. 3 over 3 shows 4s and short s. Responder does not have to accept the transfer - in particular can bid 3NT with 12 and can bid 3s with 6+s.
**** 3 shows 5-5 in the reds, not forcing - responder can pass with long s.
**** 3 is natural and forcing.
**** 3 and 3 are natural, 18/19+.
**** 3NT to play.
**** 4/ with big 6-5+.

2NT: 10+ with 4-2-2-5 exactly and a hand that wants to play 2NT opposite 5s up to 13.
**** 3X is now natural and forcing to 3NT or 4X.

3/: Six or longer suit, up to bad 9. 3X by opener is now forcing to 3NT.

3: Game invite with 3s.

3: 5-5+ in the minors, 10+.
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#16 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2006-April-05, 07:18

Hi Glen,

I play riton 2, my 2 opening bid is a normal minimum opening with 5+ and 4+, and I play the inversion where 1-1 shows 0 to 4 and 1-1NT is 5+. I started playing KI after reading stuff on your bridgematters pages and adopting riton 2 from henri here in this forum.

With that background, here is how we bid.

1-1-1NT = weak opener, not 4's, not 6, not 4. May have 4. Over this 1NT, 2 and 2 are definately not forcing, 2 is invite but 2 cards only, 2 game force, 2NT, 3 and 3 all invites. So this is close to your treatment (other than 1NT can not include 4s.

1-1-2 = riton, good 15 or more. 2 is waiting bid response to hear opener's rebid.

1-1-2 = 4 card support, minimum holding. Nothing about s (basically a delayed flannery). Here I get a little fancy. Spade rebids are natural, 2 rebid is weak, 2NT and 3 are both "transfers", 3 is game invite in and 3 is SLAM try in .

1-1-2 = weak hand, 6+. Here 2 is artificial game force, without real support. 2NT, 3 and 3 are transfers ( game invite in ), and 3 is game force, slam try again.

1-1-2 = true reverse, and shows 5 and 6 minimum. The stregnth of my reverse is limited by the fact with 6-5 I didn't open my misiry 2NT bid (4 losers or less, two suiter including hearts but not clubs). As such, this strong reverse is not "forcing".

1-1-2NT, as noted just above, my 2NT openings are not 20-21. Here this 2NT rebid shows just such a hand.. balanced 20-21.

I very much like the combination of KI with riton 2. When I throw in to the system a few of the other wrinkles (no truely strong two suiter, no strong three suiter, no heart club two suiter minimum opening) the follow ups become very easy (at least so far).
--Ben--

#17 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2006-April-05, 07:37

You haven't included option (5), which is what I play!

As I have said elsewhere, when I have a 5M332 shape with strong NT strength, I prefer to select 1M or 1NT depending on the 'suitability' of the hand. Axx AQ10xx Axx xx is a clear 1H opener (give it another Jack if you think that's needed to make it worth a strong NT) while KJx KQ109x AJx Qx is a 1NT bid.

Accordingly I am left without a rebid after 1H - 1S if I have opened with 15-17, so I play

1H - 1S - 1NT as 12-17 balanced.

It looks a little odd, but in practice the huge range doesn't seem to hurt. Responses can be more or less artificial, a down-the-middle approach is

2C = range enquiry (2D 12-13, 2H/2S 14-15, 2NT 16-17) over 2D response 2-level is NF sign-off, 3 level forcing; over 2H/2S a raise is invitational NF; 2NT is FG).
2D = natural and weak
2H = usually 5-2 in the majors, choice of contracts
2S = weak (I don't play 1H - 2S as a WJS which may affect things here)
2NT = invitational opposite top of the range only

The main disadvantage is that with a random 8-9 count you have to play 2H (or 2S) rather than 1NT after asking.

Townsend/Allerton used to play transfers after 1H - 1S (and another pair of my acquaintance still do) but gave it up because they found the loss of the 1NT contract too great.
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#18 User is offline   glen 

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Posted 2006-April-05, 07:47

As of April 13, here's where we are at:

Here’s what I like best over the Kaplan Inversion/Granville. It assumes you play an opening at the two level to handle 6+s and up to 12 HCP, such as Trent Twos, Goldilocks, or Fatnuns.

This is just a work in progress at this time, but here’s the current look.

After 1-1:

1NT: Maximum of 14. Balanced, semi-balanced or with exactly four clubs (not 0-5-4-4). Now 2m is to play, 2 is an artificial game force, 2 and invite with 2s and (or poor invite with 3s), 3X natural invite.

2: Five or longer s or 0-5-4-4 and any strength, or four s and 15+, or 6+s and no second suit and either 13-17 or 18+ with flat hand or short s.

2: 4+s, up to 16 (not 5s if 14-16).

2: 4s with 15-18, or 5+s up to 16, or balanced 15-17. 3NT is to play, 2NT is a signoff with either minors or just s, and is to play in s if 3-3 in minors. 3 is a signoff with 5+s, but opener can continue to bid with a 5-5+ fit or good maximum. 3 is a game invite with 6+s. 2 shows a game invite hand, and opener bids 2NT with 15 or poor 16, and 3s if 5-5 up to 14, and bids above 3 establish a game force.

2: 4+s, 16/17-19 if 4s, 14-16 if 5+s.

2NT: 18-19 balanced. Now 3X is a transfer, with 3 showing long s and 3 showing both minors.

3: 18/19+ with 4+s. Now 3 asks hand type, 3 shows long s.

3: 17/18+ with 4s or 16/17+ with 5s. Now 3 shows suit or stopper, and 3 asks for further description, with 3 showing weak s.

3: 17/18+, singleton/void and no other four card or longer suit.
3: 17/18+, singleton/void and no other four card or longer suit.
3NT: 17/18+ with solid suit, stoppers or semi-stoppers in other suits.

4/: Distributional 6-5 or better, good playing value but not strong.
4: 7+s, extra playing value but not super strong.

After 1-1--2:

Pass: Possible with long s and awful hand.
2: For opener to pass if 4s and 15-16 or 5+s up to 14. Up to 9, 4+s or 3s and short s. If 6+s can have values expecting opener to bid again with 6s and for the opponents to bid if the contract is left in 2 with great fit. Now:
**** Pass: 4+s, no game interest.
**** 2: 6+s, 13-17. Now bidding is natural, except 2 shows a good hand with s, and 3 is weak with long s.
**** 2: 4+s and game interest, forcing just to 2NT.
**** 2NT: 6+s, flat hand, or with 4+s, 3 asks, 3 and 4X showing 4+s, 3 to 3NT showing flat hand with degree of strength (3NT=best).
**** 3: 18/19+ game force with 4s. 3 asks hand type.
**** 3: 17/18+ with 5+s, game force.
**** 3: 17/18-19, 6+s, short in s. Not forcing.
**** 3: 19/20+, 6+s and short s.
**** 3NT: 19/20+, 6+s and singleton honor.

2: Up to 9, 2 or 3 s (not 3 if 8-9). Now:
**** Pass: no game interest.
**** 2: Shapely game invite with 4+s.
**** 2NT: Semi-balanced hand with 4s, game interest.
**** 3: Game force with 4+s.
**** 3: Game force with 5+s.
**** 3: Game invite with 6+s.
**** 3: Game force with 6+s.
**** 3NT,4: To play.
**** 4: Singleton/void in s, 6+s, slam interest.

2: Most hands with 9/10+ and no clear direction or with s. Now:
**** 2NT shows 5-5 in the reds, not forcing - responder can pass, or bid 3 with long s or bid 3 with a fit/semi-fit.
**** 3 shows 4s, 15+, game force.
**** 3 shows 5+s, 14/15+, game force.
**** 3 shows 6s, 13-14, non-forcing.
**** 3 shows 6+s, game force.
**** 3NT to play.
**** 4 is slam try with 6+s, short s.
**** 4 with big 6-5+.
**** 4 to play.

2NT: 9/10+ with 6+s. Now opener bids, 3 with any minimum, 3 with s and 15+ (now game forcing), 3 with 6+s and 15+ (now game forcing), and 3 if weak and/or short in s with 2+s.

3: Six or longer suit, up to bad 9.

3: 3+s, 2+s, 11-12. Asks partner to bid 4 or cuebid on the 4 level with 6+s, pass with 5-5 and minimum opening, or bid 3X with s, using 3 to show a stopper.

3: Game invite with 3s. Opener only passes with minimum 5-5.

3: 5-5 in the minors, 9/10+.

3NT: Game going with 3s – offers opener the chance to try for slam by cuebidding.

4/: 6-5 or better in the minors, 9/10+.

------------------------------------------------------------

As of April 5:

FrancesHinden, on Apr 5 2006, 01:37 PM, said:

2NT = invitational opposite top of the range only

If 2NT is an invite opposite only top of range, then many 2NT contracts will have 12-13 opposite not enough points. It seems better to play 2NT as an invite with only bottom of range not accepting.

In reply to inquiry, I don't like Riton 2 but another thread is better for that debate.

Since the last post I’ve tinkered with the mappings, to produce the following. Since these posts will have limited interest, I’ll continue any future updates here:

http://www.bridgemat...tters/blog.html

The structure, keeping 2 rebid for a minor or balanced, often 15+.

After 1-1:

1NT: Maximum of 14. Balanced or with exactly a four card minor (not 0-5-4-4). Now 2m is to play, 2 is an artificial game force, 2 an invite with 2s and (or poor invite with 3s), 3X natural invite.

2: Four or longer minor and 14/15+, or five or longer minor any strength, or 0-5-4-4 any strength or 15+ balanced. Structure below.

2: 4+s, up to 16 (not 5s if 14-16).

2: 4+s, 16/17-18 if 4s, 14-16 if 5+s.

2NT: 6/7s and no void/small singleton 19+, or 5+s and 4+s and 19+. Now 3 asks if 4s, with 3 saying yes and 3NT no. 3 asks hand type, with 3NT denying 4s and 3X shape showing with 4s (3 if 4-5-2-2). 3NT is to play, 3 shows long s and 3 shows long s.

3/: 16/17+ with 6+s and void/small singleton in suit bid and no other four card or longer suit. 3 is non-forcing but opener bids again with extras.
3: 16/17-18 with 6+s, no singleton or void/small singleton and no other four card or longer suit. 3 asks if short, 3NT says no.
3: 18/19+ with 6+s and void/small singleton and no other four card or longer suit.
3NT: 18+ with solid suit, stoppers or semi-stoppers in other suits.
4/: Distributional 6-5 or better, good playing value but not strong.

After 1-1--2:

Pass: Possible with long s and awful hand.
2: Up to 9, 4+s or 3s and short s. If 6+s quite weak Now:
**** Pass: 4+s, no game interest.
**** 2: 4s with 15-18 or 5+s up to 16 or balanced 15-18. 3 to play and 3 weak with long s. 2NT is a non-forcing game try with 4/5s. 2 asks, 2NT shows 15-16, 3 5-5 not max, 3 if 4s 17-18, 3 if 6-4, 3 if 5-5 maximum, and 3NT if 17-18 balanced.
**** 2: 4+s and game interest, forcing just to 2NT.
**** 2NT: Balanced or semi-balanced hand with good game interest, about 18/19-20.
**** 3: 18/19+ game force with 4+s. 3 asks hand type.
**** 3: 17/18+ game force with 5+s.
**** 3: 6+s and 4+s, game forcing (bid 2 first if lesser values).
**** 3: 5-5+ with s, game force.
**** 3NT: To play.

2: Up to 9, 2s & 4-5s. Now:
**** Pass: 4+s or balanced, no game interest.
**** 2: Shows s suit or fragment, could be 2 or 3 only if game force. Asks responder to bid 2NT if maximum, 3 if minimum, then opener bids 3 to signoff (or passes 3) or bids 3X to shape out, 3 being a suit or a stopper.
**** 2NT: Balanced or semi-balanced hand with game interest, about 17-18.
**** 3: 3s (often with 4+s), game invite.
**** 3: 5+s game invite.
**** 3: Game invite with 6s.
**** 3: 5-5+ with s, game force.
**** 3NT: To play.

2: Most hands with 9/10+ (see 2NT and 3+ alternatives). Now:
**** 2NT asks, not super shapely except can be 5-5 non-game force with s. Responder bids:

******** 3: Nothing to say. Now opener can pass if minimum 5-5 or bid 3NT to play, or bids 3 to show s or 3 to show s or re-asks with 3: 3 says fairly flat, and now 3 asks if extras (3NT=no), 3 shows 5s, 3NT shows 6+s with 3s.
******** 3: 6+s and fewer than 3s.
******** 3: 5s. 3 asks if 4s (3NT says no).
******** 3: 6+s.
******** 3NT: Maximum without 5+s. Opener can now continue with natural slam try.
******** 4: 6+s and 4+s.
******** 4: 6+s and 4s.

**** 3 shows 5-5 in the reds, not forcing - responder can pass with long s or bid 3 with a fit/semi-fit.
**** 3 shows 4+s, game force, and either 5-5 or 6-4. 3 asks, and 3 shows 5-5, all other bids showing 6-4 or better.
**** 3 shows 4+s, game force, and either 5-5 or 6-4. 3 asks, and 3NT or 4 shows 5-5 (the latter with considerable extras), all other bids showing 6-4 or better.
**** 3 shows weak doubleton or shorter, asks partner to bid 3NT with s stopped or to explore for a best minor suit game or slam.
**** 3NT to play, responder should pass even with 12.
**** 4/ with big 6-5+.
**** 4 with 6+s, 4s and 18/19+.

2NT: 10+ with 4-2-2-5 exactly and a hand that wants to play 2NT opposite 5s up to 13.
**** 3X is now natural and forcing to 3NT or 4X.

3/: Six or longer suit, up to bad 9. 3X by opener is now forcing to 3NT.

3: Game invite with 3s. Opener only passes with minimum 5-5.

3: 5-5 in the minors, 9/10+.

3NT: Game going with 3s – offers opener the chance to try for slam by cuebidding.

4/: 6-5 or better in the minors, 9/10+.
'All you are is mean / And a liar, and pathetic, and alone in life / And mean, and mean, and mean, and mean ... And all you're ever gonna be is mean / Why you gotta be so mean?' Taylor Swift
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