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LusoBrasil Online TD training session 1 notes judiciously edited

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Posted 2006-March-12, 14:04

General Comments
lusobrasil Welcome all and... lets start working -))
lusobrasil The most important thing in a competition, I think, is the integrity of the event.
lusobrasil What I mean is that the one that wins is the one that should win according to his results
lusobrasil Not the one that was most lucky in TDs assignments.
lusobrasil So, a TD should be as transparent as possible.
lusobrasil Without being invisible of course

Procedural Penalties/Difficulties directing at BBO
lusobrasil BBO has a severe limitation on the software for running tournaments
lusobrasil in the form of inability to give penalties
lusobrasil If you wish to give a penalty to a player you have currently to do it on the score of a board, thereby giving a plus to another pair
lusobrasil This means that you break the integrity of the competition when you assign a penalty of some sort

Example:
lusobrasil Lets think about those "one trick penalty for not alerting"
lusobrasil Board 1 4S=, Board 2 4S=... penalty in either board will mean 4S-1
lusobrasil Which means something like 7-10 imps, depending on vuln
lusobrasil Now Board 1 and Board 2 4S+1... Penalty would be then 1 IMP only...
lusobrasil And someone would be collecting in one case 1 imp, other case 7 to 10 imps.

lusobrasil 1) Any penalty should be proportional to the size of the crime
lusobrasil 2) Extremely important---penalties should not benefit anybody else.
lusobrasil So as much as possible penalties must be avoided
lusobrasil If BBO permits TDs to deduct points from a player/pair, then there would be no problem in gioving MP or IMP penalties...
lusobrasil but in any case never "trick penalties"...
lusobrasil Even in table bridge I tend not to penalize whenever possible...
lusobrasil because we are in a tournament not to show how smart or brilliant we are,
lusobrasil but to administer the tournament to the taste of the players
lusobrasil and according to the regulations in force, as much as possible

lusobrasil So, the important thing to consider whenever we take any decision at a table is...
lusobrasil "equity".
lusobrasil Not justice, but equity. There are many cases when the laws of bridge seem unjust
lusobrasil but justice is what the legislators care with
lusobrasil TDs must do equity within the framework of the regulations and laws they have



General comments on giving A+/A- scores
lusobrasil About giving A+A- scores
lusobrasil The mark of a good director is to give as few possible av+av-
lusobrasil On table bridge we only give those 60/40 or similar when no result can be obtained at a table
lusobrasil When there is a result at a table, and there has been any kind of problem that resulted in damage, we try to achieve equity
lusobrasil by removing the damage...
how do we do this? for example with a wrong explanatioin,
assume the good explanation would be given to the opponents
and NOT to the offending player that is astray, of course
like if players were behind screens
what would the players with the good explanation do?
what would happen from the pn.
(from then on)
Only if you cant get to a final (adjusted) result should you say ok there is damage
but I cant determine what is the final outcome
and so I give 60 to the non offenders
and 40 to the offenders
AV+AV+.... never, or almost
This is when there is no possible result but not by the fault of the players
I would give that if for example a kib says to the table the final outcome before they start the bidding, or the play, or something like that
ok?


Something to remember when players call for TDs and seek appeals?
lusobrasil TDs are not in a tournament to be smarter or idolatrated by players
lusobrasil They are in a tourney to administer it and be fair and polite to all.
lusobrasil TDs should ALWAYS give players a chance to be polite too...
lusobrasil but when a player is not, then the TD can act on an (almost) equivalent plan.
lusobrasil If a TD is rude to you, you can always report him, and not play in his tourneys
lusobrasil players have always their times of distress
lusobrasil and it takes a lot from tds sometimes to put up with that
lusobrasil pleas,e when there are questions let them vanish before throweing more in the air
lusobrasil It takes a lot from TDs, even emotionally.
lusobrasil But a TD should remember also that a lot of times
lusobrasil a player is only wanting someone to "let it out"
lusobrasil before resuming his normal ways.
lusobrasil I was the td in charge of the transnationals at the estoril´bermuda, and
lusobrasil after 20,000 boards played, there was no single appeal (and no match with more than 30 VPs awarded)
lusobrasil why? there was a lot of luck there
lusobrasil but also players a lot of times complained, wanted to appeal, etc. but they just wanted a chance to be listened.
lusobrasil Always listen to players.
lusobrasil Even if they say things you dont agree with, listen to them
lusobrasil That is your job, too


What laws to use when directing in BBO?
lusobrasil Now... What laws?
lusobrasil You all know, if you direct in table bridge
lusobrasil that there is an international code of bridge with 90+ laws
lusobrasil for online bridge there is a published version made by wbf in 1999, when the scene on online bridge was on its infancy
lusobrasil and these laws have severe shortcomings
lusobrasil So we should follow the main bridge laws...
Online Laws http://www.worldbrid.../onlinelaws.pdf
Live bridge laws http://www.worldbrid.../laws/Law01.htm
lusobrasil lets stop a little for questions then


Unfinished Boards in BBO
lusobrasil About unfinished boards
lusobrasil .... Principle of equity.
lusobrasil The players have gone to some extent towards completing the board
lusobrasil We assume that they are not in a "1!c" only auction
lusobrasil but somewhere finishoing the auction or in the middle of the play
lusobrasil We should ALWAYS get a result on those boards
lusobrasil Take a look at the movie
lusobrasil see the probable outcome
lusobrasil If you cant decide between 4H= and 4H-1 try to find who was the guilty one.
lusobrasil and adjust against him
lusobrasil if you cant find because they both blame each other
lusobrasil then you are free to do 40/40...

lusobrasil One detail
lusobrasil Another shortcoming is that we cant see the frequency
lusobrasil on a board during the tourney
lusobrasil So it may even happen that both 4S= and 4S-1 are below 40%... in which case you would be giving a gift to one of the pairs...
lusobrasil Beware...
lusobrasil Maybe it will be changed in the future (uday, pleaseeeee)
lusobrasil It is very helpful for a td to see the frequencies on a board when making these decisions

lusobrasil One other detail...
huffelen would be nice when BBO saves those boards that runs out of time
lusobrasil Avoid adjusting in one way because you see as a whole that the hand is going that way.
lusobrasil What matters is where the hand goes taking into account the bidding and the card play that happened up to the time
lusobrasil I see too many times TDs saying "the normal result is this"
lusobrasil when they should think "it is this, taking into account what happened up to now"


Playing TDs?
lusobrasil This brings an other important issue
lusobrasil Playing TDs...
lusobrasil It is a practice here, but it poisons the integrity of the competition....
lusobrasil A playing TD cant make adjustements, cant see unfinished boards in time, cant get timely information from players
lusobrasil Even if they adjust in the end, the players will be gone
lusobrasil and the competition will be meaningless most of the time because whenever someone is in trouble he just lets time run out...
lusobrasil But for a minimally serious tourney... Please, dont drink and drive

lusobrasil One other thing
lusobrasil Do not be too light on judging damage just because of a wrong explanation (for example)

What if TD doesn't respond to your protest immediately?
purshi some time td doesnt repond to our protest ,then?
lusobrasil you dont keep pressing the buttons...
lusobrasil tds are sometimes extremely busy
lusobrasil and taking care of other tables
lusobrasil Always note the nickname of one of the TDs and ask them in private a little later


How many tables should a TD run to ensure a quality tourney?
DrTodd Doing this sort of an analysis to restore equity can be time consuming. Do you have any thoughts on what an appropriate ratio of directors to players should be for online bridge?
lusobrasil Dr Todd
lusobrasil At most 25 tables per TD for a quality tourney
A very good td can do a little more, but if there are 3-4 calls at a same time it takes a lot of discipline to sort all of them out


What to do in the case if a partnership has no agreements?
lusobrasil If there is no agreement
lusobrasil the good explanation is "no agreement"
lusobrasil West may be polite to say "there is no agreement but I mean this or that"
lusobrasil but he is not required to do that
esperanza many times partnershipos are last min pick up...and ur p has no idea what u mean u tell ops what u mean ur p interprets different and u are now at disadvantage
lusobrasil esperanza, that is a fact of life


Psyches
lusobrasil I got a question about psyches.
lusobrasil psyches are a part of bridge.
lusobrasil I would refer you to the WBF notes on psychs... They are very well written.

Misclicks and Undoes
esperanza if a player misclicks a bid what should he do if he meant to say " a club" and instead bid "a diamond"
esperanza because ops will call director later when they see u had only 1 diam
lusobrasil Misclicks...
lusobrasil The organizer can start the tourney as "no undos"... in that case, nothing to be said or done, however siilly the misclick is.

lusobrasil If the organizer starts as "undos allowed", important
lusobrasil The undo should not in any case be used to convey information
lusobrasil and they should not be allowed if they match a change of mind
lusobrasil the undo should be only a slip of finger
lusobrasil and never a slip of mind.

lusobrasil For example, a player opens a spade with 5sp and 5 clubs and then wants to change to 1C... no can do
lusobrasil The players
lusobrasil when they have any doubts about allowing an undo,
lusobrasil should call the TD that will allow it or not on a case by case basis-
"More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits."

John Nelson.

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Posted 2006-March-12, 14:07

Example hand:
Scoring: MP


South opened 1
West bid 2NT and alerted as UNNT
North X
ALL PASS


lusobrasil (SOUTH) is the opener, both passes up to now are fake
lusobrasil 2NT is just explained as UNUSUAL
lusobrasil nothing else.
lusobrasil Up to now, there is a misexplanation in the sense that unusual is !h + !c in this situation
lusobrasil North and South got the wrong info on the hand...
lusobrasil What is the correct agreement of the system of the players?
lusobrasil Something to be investigated by the TD
lusobrasil If the TDS cant get to a conclusion if it shows C+H or C+D (the lowest always), then he should assume wrong explanation

lusobrasil The code states that a player is entitled to know the good explanation of the *system* and not of the cards of the players
lusobrasil This "of the system" creates difficulties to many tds... Suppose a player opens a weak two in D when in fact he agreed to play multi...
lusobrasil There is no infraction at all...
lusobrasil the player simply misbid.
lusobrasil What would constitute an infraction would be for example in live bridge
lusobrasil for him to hear partner explain it as "weak two in D" and use that (unauthorized) information

lusobrasil So on this example let´s assume the worst for EW Wrong explan
lusobrasil (the good explanation of the syst would be D+C).
lusobrasil And North will keep attacking D... assuming W was short there. At this point North had pretty much forfeited any
lusobrasil right to redress
lusobrasil At the first trick, it is clear to North that West has as much as 3 cards in one of his 5-card supposed suits
lusobrasil So North should know by now that the explanation is not ok and can ask (directly, privately, not on public chat)
lusobrasil something about the meaning of the bid.
lusobrasil West simply thought "unusual" to be the lowest, and not the lowest unbids., West created
lusobrasil an involuntary infraction, but North
lusobrasil was not damaged because of the infraction, but simply because he stopped thinking...
lusobrasil And we as TDs should not give players points for not thinking


What if North is novice? Why does lusobrasil mean exactly?
catsmew what if N is a novice?
wgf_flame why should north be smart to avoid punishment ?
lusobrasil If N is a novice, we can have some leeway
lusobrasil But I think it will be good for a N novice to understand that he needs to think on the hands,,, and in this situation also
lusobrasil (novices should be able to count to 13)
lusobrasil North doesnt need to be smart, we are in a bridge tournament, and players are playing bridsge
lusobrasil not throwing random cards
lusobrasil so if north is absent, throwing random cards, he can get a bad result with or without the infraction. The damage was self inflicted by North, not caused by West


aljorge It is also rather lazy by west just to say "Unsual", especially when there can be doubts as to what it means? He should have said "!c and!d, minimum 5-5" or "could be 4-5" or ...
aljorge whatever he/she plays?
jillybean if North does ask W what 2nt means and recieve correct explanation,,what then,,call td?
lusobrasil aljorge maybe it is. That is why I said we assume the worst for him. But the damage was not created by West, was self created by N
lusobrasil If the explanation is correct according to the system, nothing can do.
lusobrasil If West corrects the explanation and N commits suicide nothing can do
lusobrasil If N only asks after continuing D knowing W can have only 3 hearts nothing can do
lusobrasil We should protect novice players somehow...
but we should also instill in them the good principles of thinking, and I think this is quite easy in that matter


Q&A about the example hand

lusobrasil Players should explain the following way
lusobrasil I as a player dont see ANY of my partners explanations, remarks, whatever
lusobrasil For example, I open multi and my prd explains as Weak 2...
lusobrasil My partner bids 2H (pass or correct) but
lusobrasil i know my parrter is bidding 2H forcing because he thinks I have a weak two in D
lusobrasil If I have a normal pass over a 2H from p in reply to my multi, I should PASS
lusobrasil because I can NOT know that my partner mistakenly explained...

jillybean In this case, if north stops here and asks W to explain the 2nt bid,, what then, call td?
lusobrasil jilly
lusobrasil If N stops and asks West
lusobrasil The damage Before the D played
lusobrasil (i mean, before playing the D2)?
lusobrasil At this point... There is no damage now, N can get it right
lusobrasil Probably 4 down, something like that
lusobrasil At this point., score stands
"More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits."

John Nelson.

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Posted 2006-March-12, 14:10

Q&A about other concepts explained today

silvia44 So mine questions is, when people not alert when you have made it clear to alert anything even when you are not sure, what then?
lusobrasil silvia, if the no alert causes no damage, why should be opponent benefit from that?


rwylee !h If pairs continuously refuse to alert/explain, or even announce their system? what should we do? penalty? what kind? or just remove them?
echognome many countries have laws which have changed in regards to giving avg+/avg- type scores. should we avoid those as well?

lusobrasil yes, I mean try to avoid some sort of automatic penalties for anything.
lusobrasil I dont mean that if there is some damage that you should not do anything... You should.



echognome since split scores are not possible, should we then use avg+/- as our approximation?
fot ok warning would be good but as pointed out what if pair constantly fails to alert?

lusobrasil WHen they refuse to explain... they explain.
lusobrasil if they dont explain there are subs available



aylaofclan what do you mean by "no possible result"
lusobrasil I mean that players cant get to the end without having the board compromised
lusobrasil av+av- is +3 -3
lusobrasil For example you see your cards and the kib says "7 is down"...
lusobrasil And it is, because trumps are 2-0 with K offside
lusobrasil Then you cant allow the board to be played until the end so players cannot get a result


MitchS what good is any online ruling without recourse to an appeals process ?
lusobrasil If a TD is very good you will rarely need an appeal
lusobrasil And we are trying to make better TDs
lusobrasil If the decision is bad, the organizations should be able to provide some sort of referring comittee, namely in the $$ tournaments


MishoVnBG Hi! Playing vs random players with my partner, I didnt receive alert about jump 2NT bid by opps after 1!d-(P)-1!h-(2NT)... When I asked about bid opp told me "I dont have any ...
MishoVnBG agreements with partner, so you know exactly what he knows". Your comment please?

lusobrasil If the opp said to you "we have no agreement", you take what you expect from bridge common sense
lusobrasil I would take it as a black two suiter
lusobrasil And call the TD
lusobrasil (and ask privately for the TD to ask the other player the meaning of the bid before they talk at the table about it
lusobrasil (so that TD can establish if that is probably true or not
lusobrasil This is an important point
lusobrasil When you go to a table,
lusobrasil if needed ask them to stop playing and ask questions privately to players (and ask them to reply in private
lusobrasil so that you dont make more info appear at the table than needed, and you can extract the information from players a.s.a.p.
lusobrasil (before time passes...)
lusobrasil Now at the real bridge table sometimes players cant go to full disclosure, or are tired or pressed. We agree they should...
lusobrasil I am addressing what we should do when they dont.
lusobrasil Never penalize them automatically, because a lot of times
lusobrasil it is not the "un-full disclosure" that creates the damage, but something else



deniseb in sayc there is no more alert only in 2/1 and others

lusobrasil Why is there no more alert in sayc? Is it engraved in stone anywhere? -)
lusobrasil I mean... Each sponsoring organization does whatever they want with the alert policy
lusobrasil And the tourney follows the sponsoring organization´s request
lusobrasil on that subject.
lusobrasil Just dont say "in sayc there is no"...
lusobrasil You should say "in these tourneys those conventions do not require alert".
"More and more these days I find myself pondering how to reconcile my net income with my gross habits."

John Nelson.

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