What do you expect

#1 kdr_fm

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Posted 2017-October-12, 20:09

♠Kxx
♥Txx
♦AJx
♣AQxx

P 1S 2D Dbl
P 3H

3D immediate instead of dbl is just F, not necessarily spade support

Give example hands you'd expect from partner.

#2 steve2005

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Posted 2017-October-12, 21:29

If cue bid doesn't promise support you need a bid to show support. I suggest 2NT.
Natural 2NT hands can do a trap pass.

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#3 The_Badger

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Posted 2017-October-12, 22:21

kdr_fm, on 2017-October-12, 20:09, said:

♠Kxx
♥Txx
♦AJx
♣AQxx

P 1S 2D Dbl
P 3H

3D immediate instead of dbl is just F, not necessarily spade support

Give example hands you'd expect from partner.

In my view, partner will be a 16-17(poor 18) count including distribution and with 5♠ + 4♥. The 3♥ bid I would take as encouraging/invitational but not completely forcing.

#4 msjennifer

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Posted 2017-October-12, 23:37

I feel it all depends on your definition of the negative double and whether it does or does not guarantee four cards in Hearts.If it does,then I expect a 15/16 HCP hand {no wastage in diamonds.)If 4 cards is not a guarantee then partner will usually have a 5 carder ( a strong 4Carder will do)Hearts suit and 15/16 HCP.and if you play LTC then a 6 loser hand.

#5 dokoko

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Posted 2017-October-12, 23:49

I bid 3♠ - forcing.

If this were nonforcing, I should have used a forcing raise instead of double!

That said I think 3h should be FG with 5+ hearts (with 4 bid 3d asking partner to bid 3h with 4). With less than a game force (opposite a 2-level negative double) opener may choose from 2h, 2s and 2nt.

#6 rmnka447

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Posted 2017-October-13, 01:24

I would think in this auction

P - 1 ♠ - 2 ♦ - DBl
p - ?

that

2 ♥ - minimum opener (12-bad 15) and 4+ ♥
3 ♥ - good hand (15+-18) and 4+ ♥
3 ♦ - even better hand with ♦ control if subsequent show ♥

#7 gordontd

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Posted 2017-October-13, 02:05

kdr_fm, on 2017-October-12, 20:09, said:

♠Kxx
♥Txx
♦AJx
♣AQxx

P 1S 2D Dbl
P 3H

3D immediate instead of dbl is just F, not necessarily spade support

Give example hands you'd expect from partner.

Have you missed out a call in this auction? I wouldn’t have overcalled 2D with this hand but nor would I have doubled.

Gordon Rainsford
London UK

#8 wank

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Posted 2017-October-13, 09:57

i expect i'll be changing my system.

#9 RD350LC

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Posted 2017-October-13, 12:07

kdr_fm, on 2017-October-12, 20:09, said:

♠Kxx
♥Txx
♦AJx
♣AQxx

P 1S 2D Dbl
P 3H

3D immediate instead of dbl is just F, not necessarily spade support

Give example hands you'd expect from partner.

I would expect at least 5 spades and 4 hearts. Since p jumped, I would also expect a game forcing hand-definitely more than a minimum. Say 15-17+ hcp.
But then, that is just my opinion.

#10 nige1

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Posted 2017-October-13, 13:38

kdr_fm, on 2017-October-12, 20:09, said:

♠ K x x ♥ T x x ♦ A J x ♣ A Q x x
P 1S 2D Dbl
P 3H P
3D immediate instead of dbl is just F, not necessarily spade support
Give example hands you'd expect from partner.

Presumably, the 2♦ overcaller passed (as in the extended auction above)?
Over RHO's 2♦, I rate

3♦ = CUE. Unless it denies ♠ support.
4♠ = NAT.
3♣ = NAT.
3N = NAT
2N = Whatever it means.
_X = NEG.

In the actual auction 3♥ is natural (at least invitational -- forcing by agreement). e.g. ♠ A Q x x x x ♥ K Q x x ♦ x x ♣ K.

Now it might be hard to persuade partner that you like ♠ more than ♥s and have such a slam suitable hand. 6♠ could be a crude but practical bid.

Guthrie.tech

#11 gszes

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Posted 2017-October-13, 18:11

NF shows around 5s 4h and asks for fit and around 2 aces for game too many hand types to show them all

#12 fourdad

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Posted 2017-October-14, 08:31

gszes, on 2017-October-13, 18:11, said:

NF shows around 5s 4h and asks for fit and around 2 aces for game too many hand types to show them all

I would never consider a jump shift as NF. But I HATE the dbl as it completely misstates the shape of the hand. Seems to me a cue is premature. But I play 3S as a limit raise and that would understate the values. 2NT is out for no heart stop, so I would likely temporize w/ 3C, forcing and wanting further description of partners hand.

From the 3H bid I would expect 5-4 in spades/hearts and 18+ and would be hard pressed not to be in slam.

#13 GrahamJson

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Posted 2017-October-14, 09:06

fourdad, on 2017-October-14, 08:31, said:

I would never consider the 3H bid as a jump shift, in the same way that a jump opposite a take out double (e.g [1H] - X - [PASS] - 2S) is not. The double is forcing so 2H would show a minimum opener, hence 3H shows about an ace better than minimum. With 18+ you would cuebid first or bid 4H if the double guaranteed either four hearts or a strong hand.

#14 Phil

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Posted 2017-October-15, 12:57

kdr_fm, on 2017-October-12, 20:09, said:

3D immediate instead of dbl is just F, not necessarily spade support

/thread

Hi y'all!

Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.

#15 P_Marlowe

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Posted 2017-October-18, 11:42

Hi,

I dont understand the question, the request / the intention of this post.
If you can not show the spade support, than bid 3NT, this should show
game going values, a diamond stopper, a (semi) balanced hand, deny
4 hearts. The description comes pretty close?

Assuming, you dont have the stopper, move AJx to other suits, go via
3D, follow up with 4S.

You have limited system agreements, fair enough, live with it, this means
accept that you can only approximatly show your hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe

With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)

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