BBO Discussion Forums: Are Reverse Bids "On" or "Off" in a 2/1 Auction? - BBO Discussion Forums

Playing 2/1, in the following sequence e.g. 1♦-2♣-2♠, does the 2♠ bid constitute a reverse bid or is opener merely bidding out his shape now in search of the best spot?

If playing 2/1 GF, then both of the openers below will make a standard rebid of 2S after 1H - 2C( or 2D ) :

If playing 2/1 GF, then both of the openers below will make a standard rebid of 2S after 1H - 2C( or 2D ) :

It's only matter of partnership agreement but you better have some relays and good system available if you bid it without extras.

Warning: the following discussion is not entirely suitable for the B/I thread

The rebid issue after 1♦ 2♣ is a theoretical quagmire in standard methods. Established expert partnerships usually develop special agreements for it. I know of several approaches: Richie Riesig has a good one. My preference is actually close to what JB suggested.

I use the 2♦ rebid by opener as essentially a noise: it may well only be on a 4 card suit, if opener is unable to make any other call within the confines of the method. This is, obviously, less than perfect, but there is no perfect, simple method here.

2Major is about a King more than a minimum... so, say a working 15 count, and guarantees 4=5 or better shape.

2N is balanced, with both majors stopped, and at least 2♣s. It does not deny a 4 card major, but if we have one, we are 4432 shape with a weak notrump hand.. this way, if responder reverses into a 4 card major at the 3-level, and catches opener with a raise, a lot is known about opener's hand (and opener can cue en route to 4Major with some hands)

2♦, the catchall, is not necessarily a minimum, alho as a matter of practice it often is, if bid with only 4 or 5 ♦s.

For those who play that opener should rebid a 4 card major on all habds possessing one, some my objections have already been voiced by earlier posts.

If we are playing SAYC, then 1♦ 2♣ has not yet established a gf. We need some way of doing so, and it will sometimes be opener who has to make that announcement. Since 2♣ promises 10+ hcp, it makes sense that opener have 15 or the playing equivalent to gf.. and this is one very cogent reason why opener's rebid of 2Major should show that strength: it creates a gf. If it did not, then the partnership will often be floundering on the next round. Responder, with gf values and a strong ♣ suit, cannot rebid 3♣ over 2major, if 2major could be a minimum, since opener may pass.. so does he have to invent an abominable 4th suit forcing?? Imagine: 1♦ 2♣ 2♠ 3♥.... with 3♥ a noise... we have destroyed an enormous amount of bidding space and yet have exchanged very little information!

Now, playing 2/1, particuarly a style in which 2♣ is gf, at least eliminates that difficulty. But 2/1 has its own areas of difficulty: especially with strong but not huge hands facing equally strong but not huge hands. Thus it is not uncommon for 2/1 players to reach 3N with 16 opposite 16, when opener was offshape for 1N (if playing strong notrumps). 1♦ 2♣ 2♠.. .if responder knows that this promises extras, then he will not be afraid to probe beyond 3N... and 3N is a kind of bidding trap for bridge players with no major suit fit. If 2♠ is wide-range, then responder will be leery of reaching 4N on 12 opposite 16... yes, it may make, but the cost of going down 1 in a voluntarily bid 4N makes most of us cringe.

I could go on... but I have some work to do.

If playing 2/1 GF, then both of the openers below will make a standard rebid of 2S after 1H - 2C( or 2D ) :

1)
♠ Q x x x
♥ A K J x x
♦ Q x
♣ x x

2)
♠ A K Q x
♥ A K J x x
♦ x x
♣ x x

That's actually a matter of partnership agreement. There are some that like to play that it still shows reverse values and some prefer that it's bidding out shape. The latter form seems to be the most popular amongst advanced+ players these days. Either one works, just make sure that you are on the same page as your partner.

Once that is known, either partner with extra values will already have a fairly good idea where the final contract belongs. To show slam interest, the partner with extra values can continue with Serious/Non-Serious 3NT? Where no 4-4 or 5-3 trump fit can be found, you are headed for a NT contract.

So how do you show extras in that latter case?

To show slam interest, the partner with extra values can continue with Serious/Non-Serious 3NT?

Opener’s reverse of the form one diamond — two clubs — two of a major does not promise extra values.

Playing 2/1, in the following sequence e.g. 1♦-2♣-2♠, does the 2♠ bid constitute a reverse bid or is opener merely bidding out his shape now in search of the best spot?

In answer to your question: Opener is now in search of the best spot -- 1st priority to find a 4-4 Major fit if one exists - - regardless of strength.

For the above auction where 2C! = GF, it does NOT deny a 4 card major.
The entire 2-level is available to search for a 4-4 Major fit.

If NO Major fit is found, Opener w/extras can bid 4NT ( Quant ) over 3NT .

Also, it's not like failing to reverse removes your ability to find 4-4 major fits; after 1d-2c-2d, one still has a ton of space available. Also, you might want to consider what use you are going to put for auction 1d-2c-2d-2s-3s; how does this differ from auction 1d-2c-2s-3s if reverse does not show extra? Does first auction show 5d and latter deny 5d? Does first auction show 6? Do you never use first auction which seems waste of a possible sequence? How about an auction like 1d-2c-2nt-3s-4s?